Posted: March 20, 2010 in christian living
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“That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is foreordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.”

-Charles Spurgeon

  1. Mark says:

    Sorry, just because Charles says something doesn’t make it truth. Predestination is more than just foreknowledge… it is the Will of God… and if we can’t resist it and He creates us for damnation, there is no way we are responsible… sorry you can’t convince an intelligent thinker otherwise. I know that God knows all, but I also know that God only knows ALL that there is to know… not what there isn’t to know. God cannot make a rock so big that He, Himself, cannot lift it because it is an impossibility. God cannot lie. God cannot sin. God cannot know what there is not anything to know. I do believe, however, that He is so intelligent (infinitely so) that He knows everything that is going to happen merely by knowing us and His creation… not because it has already happened, or that He created it to happen a certain way… otherwise He would not be disappointed in us when we sin (if He created us that way).

  2. Mark says:

    And why are you asking us to flee Babylon, aka Modern American Christianity, if it is all God’s Will. If His will is so strong that we cannot resist it, what is your plea for? Apparantly we go to the Church we go to because God wills it. You see, this is where free will comes in… we have God given free will to please Him or disappoint Him. In this scenario, your plea would work… which I think it does, because you are asking us to find God, not some man-made god of our own liking… now that is free-will 🙂

  3. James says:

    “that He is so intelligent (infinitely so) that He knows everything that is going to happen merely by knowing us and His creation… not because it has already happened, or that He created it to happen a certain way… ”

    Mark, this is one of the best cases of circular reasoning that I have seen. Simply reading this statement makes my head spin. If we stop for just one moment and read these words you have spoken clearly, you are merely stating what we call Omniscience, or God’s eternal knowledge. If then, He is not bound by time constraints, yet knows the actions that man will take, and therefore wills other events surrounding man’s decisions to conspire with them and keep them in accordance with all the other decisions that man is making, the actions and events occurring within the creation, and aligning it all with the cosmos, this is predestination.

    Simply stated, the implications of your statement quoted above are a tragedy concerning the sovereignty of God. The end result is that God is dependent upon the decisions of man in order to make future decisions impacting other men. This, neuters God’s power and makes it contingent upon the will of men.

    I just don’t see the Scripture teaching that.

  4. ian vincent says:

    Romans 9


    I agree with Spurgeon’s thoughts on the matter.

    Which, btw, means we are not Calvinists or Arminians.

    • fleebabylon says:

      Which, btw, means we are not Calvinists or Arminians..

      I agree with you Ian… as I believe the scriptures do too.

  5. ian vincent says:

    Hi Jim, It’s nice to be agreeing over God’s Word. 🙂


    Without acknowledging for-ordination, how could we understand the Cross of Calvary, and the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world?

    And how could we understand scriptures like this: Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.

    And in Revelation we have exactly 12000 chosen from each tribe of Israel. Coincidence? Or predestination?

    1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which has not kissed him.

    Just a coincidence that exactly 7000 did not commit idolatry, or God’s election?

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