sola confused

Posted: August 15, 2011 in christian living, ecclesia, Jesus
Tags: ,

1Corinthians 14:26  What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

Sola scripture – except for the ones that clearly show God chooses to speak to the Church through various members of the body, using various gifting of the Spirit.  Those scriptures no longer apply today.  This faulty thinking is the result of the spirits of Calvin and Luther being more prominent in the camp than the Holy Spirit.  Love my reformed brethren, always defending the faith, but it’s time to examine your traditions against the word of God (sola scripture). 

In Christ,

Jim

Advertisements
Comments
  1. fleebabylon says:

    just came across this post by brother Glen

    http://glennchristopherson.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/prophesying-for-fun-fame-and-fortune/

    “God’s written word is the touchstone for all Spirit-filled proclamations. It is the constitution of the Christian, the unchanging rule for the redeemed, heaven birthed truth for the holy people of God.”

  2. fleebabylon says:

    One of the most insane things I can think of is a senior pastor in a reformed church, who holds an unbiblical (and often even ANTI biblical) position as a pulpit pope, contradicting the word of God and teaching that the gifts no longer exist since the apostles generation. This makes me sad for the true brethren involved, even those who themselves parrot the typical reformed teaching about the gifts ceasing. Sola confusda… I believe the word of God, but I believe some of it no longer applies today (Doesnt the liberal christian use that same human wisdom to justify how homosexuality is now ok). Save the strawman arguments about the abuse of the gifts in the so called charasmatic churches, there is just as much false teaching as false prophesying and false “manifestations” going on. Does that mean the gift of teaching isn’t for today?

  3. fleebabylon says:

    I believe the gift of teaching passed with the apostles, and all those who sit under the teaching of a pastor are being misguided by the spirits of dead reformers… yes I am joking, but you get the idea.

  4. ian vincent says:

    From my blog:

    Cessationism versus Continuationism

    quote:

    ” A Continuationist concludes that modern prophecies do not represent an infallible source of authority for the Church and, as such, the principle of Sola Scriptura is not violated.”

    ” …The main Continuationist objection is that the Bible does not offer any clear (explicit) text that would support Cessationism.”

    from:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_Continuationism
    Share this:

    quote:

    ” For principled Cessationists, who reject Continuationism by appealing to the principle of Sola Scriptura, the main issue is the logical relation between Sola Scriptura and the Continuationist thesis. They contend that Charismatic gifts would represent a second infallible source of authority for the Church, and we therefore cannot consistently maintain Sola Scriptura. ”
    unquote
    .
    .

    The problem with this is that it elevates every prophetic utterance spoken BEFORE the Canon was completed as being equal to the Canon, as the inspired Word of God, which would be really silly.

    THAT is what they are saying, and it’s absurd.

    There’s no way in the world that we can glean from Paul’s teaching that he thought that every gift of the Spirit in operation at the time in the Churches was equal in authority to Scripture, and THAT is what the Cessationists are implying by saying after the Canon there could be no more gifts bcos it would violate Sola Scriptura.

    So, after Paul wrote to Corinth concerning spiritual gifts, they could no longer use them bcos Paul had given them the Scripture, and therefore using the gifts would undermine the authority of Paul’s letters to them? Were they violating Sola Scriptura by continuing to use gifts AFTER they had received the Scriptures from Paul? No.

    Why did God have Paul write extensively on the proper use of gifts if He was going to ban them just a few years later?

    Did Paul know that the gifts he was teaching on would cease shortly after? If he did, why didn’t he say so?

    That large portions of the NT Canon have no relevance to the entire Church age?

    So much Scripture is irrelevant to us today, BUT we have Sola Scriptura?

  5. ian vincent says:

    From my blog:

    Here is a recent thread on the same subject concerning the voice of God:

    http://ianvincent.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/what-is-being-led-and-taught-by-the-holy-spirit/

    It is very hard for us to have confidence that a Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit if they think that hearing Jesus’ voice is a foreign concept, and they are solely left to their own intellect, trying to apply Bible principles alone. That is how unsaved cultural Christians operate.

    It’s also hard to believe Christians are FILLED with the Holy Spirit when they come up with hair-brained reasonings, tortured logic, and scripture twisting to establish Cessationism.

    Yet, also hard to believe ones are Spirit-filled when gifts are in operation but there is little Christian character, genuine love, or love for the truth of Scripture.

    ……………………………………………………………………………

    There are times when i think it would be more convenient to become a Cessationist, especially consdering how much is false today, and that the final delusion concerning the “man of sin”, “the beast” , will be by great signs and wonders.

    Much of the signs and wonders movement in the earth is conditioning and preparing the way for the last and final delusion.

    However, a doctrine of convenience indicates a lack of the fear of God.

    …………………………………………………………..

    It would have been so easy for the LORD Jesus to warn us accordingly: “I am going to cease the gifts of the Spirit, and that is how you will know false prophets, by the fact that they are doing miracles when I have ceased the gifts.”

    It would have been so easy for the LORD to warn us on these lines, if that were the truth.

    But we’re not going to get out of it that easy. We’re gonna have to use our brain.

    We are going to have to discern false prophets BY THEIR MESSAGE AND LIFESTYLE and not by the fact that they do miracles or healings.

    The Cessationist stance, among other things, is dangerously simplistic and naive.

    It is dangerous (and evil) bcos it concludes that EVEN WHEN a man has Biblical teaching, and the doctrine of Christ, and the fruit of the Spirit, that if anything supernatural happens thru his prayers, then that Godly man MUST be from satan, bcos God is not doing anything supernatural today.

    On that basis i would say Cessationism is a doctrine of demons due to the damage it can cause.

  6. ian vincent says:

    Sola Scriptura and Tongues

    Hearken, my Cessationist brothers, and let’s reason together from the Bible:

    “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.”
    (1Cor 14:18-19)
    .
    .
    .

    So, Paul spoke in tongues, in private, more than anyone. We take it from his statement here that he prefered not to speak in tongues in the Assembly.

    This means the speaking in tongues he is referring to here is private prayer. Not a tongue with an interpretation in the Assembly.

    Cessationists are saying that such private prayer is not “necessary” or “normative” today.

    But if this type of prayer is not needed today, in the Kingdom of God, then it was never needed, and Paul was deluded.

    Then, Paul says to, “not forbid speaking in tongues”.

    Therefore, if you forbid it, you do not hold to Sola Scriptura, but you place more authority on extra-Biblical teachings.

  7. ian vincent says:

    So, bottom-line, if Paul came back today, John MacArthur probably wouldnt shake his hand, when he found out that Paul prays in tongues more than anyone.

    Mac would probably try and convince Paul that praying in tongues was only needed back then, but not today.

  8. fleebabylon says:

    How come nobody has made up a doctrine that the gift of teaching no longer exists now that we have a cannonized bible and the indwelling Holy Spirit? Why go through a middle man, does the reformed pastor get fresh revelation for the people from God when he stands behind a pulpit? Isn’t the word of God enough? Why are reformed brethren always looking for fresh revelation from a pastor?

    This is the honest conclusion I would come to if I used the the same arguments and logic that the reformed camp does when approaching the other gifts.

    -Jim

  9. ian vincent says:

    There is the strange (from heaven’s perspective) phenomenom of the justified Christian who is not filled with the Holy Spirit.

    It would be impossible for a man filled with the Holy Spirit to NOT believe and accept the Gifts of the Spirit.

    Don’t ask me to explain how a man can be saved and have the Holy Spirit, but not be filled with the Holy Spirit, but it is a fact.

  10. ian vincent says:

    Very good point, brother.

    In the Reformed mindset, does the pastor have special revelation of the Scriptures which the ‘laity’ don’t have? And if there is no such thing as revelation of the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit, then no one should teach, they should limit themselves to reading out Scripture alone, without any explanation.

    A clever one will answer this, Ah, but God has given us an intellect, and by our intellectual capacity we teach the Scriptures.

    So, man’s intellectual capacity is to be trusted and relied on more than revelation by the Holy Spirit? That’s what they believe.

  11. ian vincent says:

    Then they say, “Ah, you downgrade man’s intellect, you dumb it down.”

    I say to them, ” I just proved your reasoning to be flawed, and then you charge me with being anti-intellectual?”

    c’mon.

  12. fleebabylon says:

    “the justified Christian who is not filled with the Holy Spirit.”

    For sure Ian, many good brethren used mightilly by the Lord fall in this area. I always think of this. Believers in Christ baptized with Johns baptism. Haven’t even heard that there was a Holy Spirit! At least that’s better then having been taught that the gifts had already ceased!

    Act 19:1-7 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. There were about twelve men in all.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s